DUNE AREA TRAIL CLOSURES

[Dune Dude]

Here is our chance to let our voices be heard about our favorite riding area:

THANKS JODY FOR KEEP US UPDATED...

It is here. There are maps of the dunes at the below offices. Please send this to as many people as possible. It is our turn to give input. If we do not give input, trails will close. As all of us know, when you restrict trails in the dunes, all we get is whooped out trails, smaller riding areas more accidents and more grass.....

Any questions, please call me. We may want to put together a weekend or meeting with Sharon to get more details. She is great.

One thought that comes to my mind after years of riding in the dunes is during the winter, many trails get overgrown due to standing water. They disappear very quickly but are valid trails. We need to get all of our thinking caps on to remember some of these forgotten trails. I am not sure how detailed the maps are so this will be an interesting process. There are many many trails and side trails.

Thanks,

Jody Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon L Stewart [mailto:slstewart@fs.fed.us]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 3:46 PM
To: Jody Phillips
Subject: Re: Trails Review

Hi Jody...
this information will be going out next week.. it didn't quite make May 1...And the maps should go up next week as well. If you have further questions please email me...
      The Siuslaw National Forest is seeking your assistance as we begin our Travel Management planning effort.  The Travel Management Rule, published in July 2004, directs all National Forests in the country to designate those roads, trails, and areas that are open to motor vehicle use.  This may be a significant change from our current management because much of the Siuslaw National Forest is open for motorized use, including off-highway vehicles (OHVs).

      We are undertaking an extensive public involvement effort to help us identify popular travel routes and favorite recreation spots that may be considered during our formal NEPA analysis in 2008.

      From May 1 through July 31, 2007, the Forest will have maps available at its offices in Waldport, Florence, Reedsport, Hebo and Corvallis.  We are asking the public to help us round out our inventory of know sites by adding the following to our base maps:

.     dispersed camp areas accessed by motor vehicles
.     user-created off-highway vehicle (OHV) routes
.     Forest System road segments popular for OHV riding
   Instructions and materials for making additions to the maps are available at each of our offices.  Offices are open during normal business hours (8:00 - 4:30 Monday through Friday).  In addition, Forest staff will be visiting with various clubs and groups to seek their input to the maps. There may be some evening or weekend open houses for additional public opportunities to add to the maps.

   In fall 2007, with continued public involvement, the Forest will begin planning and analyzing where motorized use, including OHV use, will be allowed on the Forest.  Existing decisions, for the most part, will not be re-visited during this process.  For example, we will not be reconsidering where OHVs may and may not operate at the Oregon Dunes National Recreation Area or Sand Lake Recreation Area.  However, decisions not already made, such as which Forest System roads will be open to OHV use, and which dispersed camps will be accessible by motor vehicle, will be made as part of this process.  That is why it is important to have a complete inventory of popular camps, user-created routes and Forest System roads.  We will only be able to consider what we know about, and places we do not know about may be left out of the motorized use system.

   In late 2008 or early 2009 the Forest, in accordance with the 2004 Travel Management Rule, expects to publish its Motorized Vehicle Use Map. At that point, any areas, dispersed camps, user-developed routes or Forest System roads not designated on the map will become entirely closed or closed to specific types/classes of motorized use.



Sharon Stewart
Dispersed Recreation Supervisor
Siuslaw National Forest
Central Coast Ranger District/Oregon Dunes NRA
541-902-6986  541-271-6071

ADDITIONAL INFO NEEDED!

Yes, ODNRA is starting the process of trail assessment and we need as much information as possible. If you know, who at Coos County, Douglas County and Lane County are the political spokes people we can get some help with? They also need to know of this process. If too many trails and riding areas are closed down it will make an impact on visitation and will create more accidents that do not help.

 

There also was a report years ago about the cost of removal of unwanted grass and associated vegetation to keep the dunes flowing. If you know where that report is, we would love a copy. To understand that 60 years ago there was no grass and the dunes were much bigger would be very helpful. There was also cost figure on how much it will cost to remove the grass. There was a large section of grass and trees that was removed from Spinreel and there must be cost information on just removing 5 or 10 acres of vegetation. There was also vegetation removal down on the North Spit to help the Snowy Plover. The Feds (FS and BLM) closed that entire riding area down with no public input. It would be helpful to get that cost as well.

 

Thanks so much for your help! Any words of wisdom would be welcomed as well.



                                                                           
           

[Quad daddy]

Folks,
The trail review is now in process. I stopped by the ODNRA in Reedsport, Oregon this week and had a good open discussion with Sharon Stewart who is part of the Forest Service team that is working on trail inventories within all the dunes on the coast. They have huge maps that are actual pictures of the dunes. They are too big and too many to review anywhere else but at the main office in Reedsport. (It is right at the end of Hwy 38 where it ends on Hwy 101) They have a form you need to fill out to show where you ride and what trails there are. As you can imagine, there are way too many trails and most of ride on them all. It is my understanding they want us to mark up these maps to show the trails. I envision this map well marked up…..
 
Sharon is going to send me a .PDF file of the pictures of the dunes so I will forward when I get them. They will probably be too small to get any detail but it is a starting point. We all need to go to Reedsport and start filling in the blanks. We need everybody to get in there. Sharon is also trying to get here in Medford June 3rd with the maps so we can see in the detail what we are in for. It is huge…
 
I also want to put in a plug for Sharon. She was raised in San Diego and rode in dune buggies in Glamis so she is very familiar with the dunes and the sport. She was instrumental in the sand camping project which I endorsed and now we can have “quality” sand camping experiences without a huge unruly group intruding on our camp with loud music, noise and booze. I agree it is a pain but I believe it was well worth it. This exercise might help with getting more space as well.
 
What will be closed up for sure is where there is damage to trees. We have all been on trails that have cut under a tree and eventually the tree falls down. They are also hiring a biologist to inventory areas that are sensitive, what ever that means. They will also be looking at areas that may be bull dosed where vegetation is growing and killing open dunes. This is where we need to concentrate as much effort as possible. This is one area where we actually can help kill vegetation that stops the flow of sand. Hopefully they will look at that as well.
 
I have my prayers nightly that they will re-open up the Coast Guard Road that goes down to the North Spit so we can ride down there again like we used to. That was an awesome trip during the winter. There is an area down there that was as close to quicksand as you can get. Pretty cool but now we can not get there at all. Some of that land is BLM and Corp of Engineers so the FS can not help us. The key is keeping off the beach for the Snowy Plovers during summer months when they nest.
 
Bottom line is to visit Reedsport and start filling out forms and marking maps! I will also be writing to the ATV magazines to get the word out to anyone that rides here in Oregon. I know during the summer I see as many California and Washington license’s plates as Oregonians plus many others including Canada.
 
 
As always, please send this to as many folks as you can.
 
Be safe!
 
Sandy and Jody Phillips
Medford, Oregon
541-779-2848

[Towman 1]

Sharon has really changed from the past I guess. She use to not like atv's at all. Especially around the florence area.

I have also heard for a long time about doing some bulldozing of some grassy areas and reopening some areas to us, but I have yet to see any of these areas. I can show you a lot of areas that has recently been closed to motorized vehicles to.

I hope that she can see that the atv community has a great impact on the economy of our area and does what she plans on doing. We really need someone from the forest service that will help us out. Up till now the forest service has told me several times that they absolutly hate atv's. And they wish they could close every grain of sand in the state of oregon. I could name names of these people, but I won't.

[Dune Dude]

It looks like Sharon might be able to attend our meeting on June 3rd.  Please try to make it for input into the Dune riding areas.
Posted on: May 21, 2007, 04:36:45 PMSharon will be here for our meeting June 3rd. at Guadalajara Family Restaurant.  The meeting will start at 12:00 noon.  She is bringing two large Dune area maps and a bunch of info about possible trail closures and what we as users need to do to keep them open.

Please let anyone you know who rides the Dunes and has good knowledge of the trails to show up for the meeting.  We don't want to lose any more dune areas!!

Special thanks to Jody for making this event happen!

Contact dunedude@apbb.net if you are planning on attending.

[Sandflicker]

Please let anyone you know who rides the Dunes and has good knowledge to show up for the meeting.  We don't want to lose any more dune areas!!

Special thanks to Jody for making this event happen!

Contact dunedude@apbb.net if you are planning on attending.
[/quote]

Everyone I know with good knowledge will be there. LOL

[RTOYZ]

Thank you Jody, We will be there for sure. Good job.

[Dune Dude]

Jody made up these fliers that he got out to the Medford area ATV shops.  I dropped off some at the ones in Grants Pass.



The US Forest Service is beginning the process of trail review and possible closure in the Siuslaw National Forest which includes the Oregon Dunes National Recreational Area (ODNRA). They are looking for public comments to establish trails that do not harm sensitive areas.

Sharon Stewart, Dispersed Recreation Supervisor for the US Forest Service, is volunteering her time to visit Medford June 3rd at 12:30 PM to help explain the process and how we can make comments. She will have very large maps of the area so we can show what trails we ride on.

Where: Guadalajara Family Mexican Restaurant, Poplar Sq, Medford
When: Open lunch 11:30-12:30

Sunday June 3rd
Meeting Starts Promptly at 12:30

Please RSVP to: dunehead@charter.net or call 779-2848


Temporary Insandity is a non-profit ATV/OHV club. Monies raised in club events go to benefit ATV safety training courses.

Posted on: May 23, 2007, 08:01:28 PMHere is the latest information on what we need to do as riders to protect our riding areas in the dunes:

The first is a copy of e-mail I sent out and response I got.  It is very informative and any of you with GPS units that are riding the Dunes this summer need to do some mapping of the trails you ride. 


We just had a meeting with Sharon and Angie on June 3rd.  They drove all the way to Medford to present what the USFS is doing with the 2004 Travel Plan. Remember, these ladies are just following what the Government has told them to do, so don't beat them up.  They are very nice and they want what is best for OHV'ers.  However, the current rules do not look good for us as riders.

They are seeking specific input to what trails you ride in the Dune Areas. They said that quality of comment was better than quantity.  This confused us a little because if a lot of people ride the trail, then it is an important trail.  But, they seemed to want to know why it is important. This seems against logic.  My wife and I filled out the comment card and placed our number on the map.  Sharon then asked which trails we ride.  "All of them" we replied, from Florence to Coos Bay.  This seemed to puzzle her. For some reason we got the impression that you can only pick one trail.  And from this impression leads us to believe that a lot of trails are going to close. 

When we ride, we spend hours each day exploring all the Dunes have to offer. It does not take long to cover the whole riding area in a few hours on an ATV.  Then we do it all over again.  So, if a lot of riders use all of the trails then why do we need to comment on specifics?

The USFS has also, hired a Biologist to study "Sensitive Habitats" which will certainly lead to area closures.  They are already talking about a mushroom that is being harmed in the Dunes. 

We brought up the issue of European Beach Grass that was planted in the 50's and has choked off the Dunes from flowing.  This has created forested areas and wetlands that will now be considered protected.  We argued that if the grass had been managed that the wetlands would not exist.  We were told too bad, that once it is a wetland, it will be protected. 

One person asked about are they considering opening up new areas if they close down existing ones and we were told they are.  But, this is not part of the travel plan; only to close down trails, not looking at opening up new ones.

The situation does not look good.  They will close down trails and people will ride around the barricades.  This will perpetuate a, close more areas because people will not stay out of "sensitive areas" mentality.  They do not have the enforcement to limit trails in the Dunes.  Riders will ride where they see other riders have gone.  This is not a good situation for OHV'ers.

Comments will be taken through mid August.  So please, do your part and make your voice heard.  Then we will have to see what they come up with and then the battle really starts.

 

TT     


Hi Tom, do you have anyone in your group that is good with GPS tracking and map making?   Here is where the quality stuff must happen, if done 100% correctly, there is no denial by the USFS of later only getting pour data input from the public.   For free, NOHVCC will send a DVD giving detail instruction on how to record information for direct submittal to USFS.  It shows using a Garmin Rino brand, which I happen to have, and the info was perfect.  I'm hearing some Forests are requiring this in order to be "acceptable comments" .....back in February we started with the dots and comment sheets, I also submitted satellite images to show the existing trails, that was even better then what the USFS had to share with us, but now "isn't good enough/not in their format".   We now have seen the new USFS map with very limited trails, which didn't seem to take any of this previous testimony into consideration, also lost e-mails, etc.
  Every dune access needs be plotted, and comments given to the economic importance of this access, then a couple connectivity routes to show the importance of these access points, otherwise you'll be lucky to have 25% of them to use later on.  Working to gather this data still might not help initially, but if things getting ugly later with legal action, we'll need to provide proof that we did "everything right".   In providing written comments, I submitted my comments in typed form, stapled to the USFS submittal sheet. This showed that I had made copies of my comments, and not just my hand-written notes going off to some "black-hole".  I believe Shanon and Angie are giving us the straight up story that they know, but not sure about how our data will be handle later up the chain of approval, if not "properly submitted with "t"s crossed, and "i"s doted.   
***Thank-you***Randy***

Map info:

http://nationalmap.gov/   one good source.  The info is at http://www.fs.fed.us/database/gps/gps2gis/gps_gis_v7-0.pdf or again the DVD is very helpful in doing the proper downloads.

[Towman 1]

Well  I guess I could say I told you so.  The forest service will spend thousands of the ATV dollars to use against us. They hire a Biologist to check on how bad we are abusing the wetlands. Well now, is the Biologist on the Green Peace side or the ATVers side. That person alone can cost us a lot  of sand.  We all know what has happened in the past about  protected lands because of some stupid logic. One for instance. The snowy plover. Ha ha ha, What a joke that was. There is absolutly thousands of them, but they still close off sand to us. Have you seen any of the sand that they taken away for the birds reopened.    No, I didn't think so.

 In our area we have tried many times to talk to the forest service about a lot of different issues. We alwayse have lost to.  I for one do not believe a word they say.

[Sandflicker]

One of the concerns that I brought up.  Is closing off public land going to stop the criminal element from producing their bounty?  I think it will only make the problem bigger, as they will not have to worry about being seen as often. 

So, soon enough, we will not only be denied access, but so will anyone else against the fire power of the unscrupulous.  Until, the Army is forced to have a war within our own boarders.

[Dune Dude]

The situation is the way it is.  We need everyone with a GPS to map trails and follow the above procedure for submitting them to the USFS.  This is the one thing we can make a difference in.  If the areas still get targeted for closure we have grounds to fight based on good documentation.  If none of us act then we can all sit around and complain how we used to ride in all of the closed areas and how much fun it was.  This battle is just beginning and we need all the great members of this club and forum to notify friends and their friends that ride the dunes, to map these areas.  Together we can save our riding areas and open up new places to ride.  We need to speak in on voice like we did with SB 49.  We had power with our numbers and the efforts of so many riders to take the time to contact Senators, collect petitions and notify other riders.  We can do the same thing with protecting our dune areas. 

[Towman 1]

Well I certainly am not smart enough or know what or who to contact to start a petition to reopen some sand dunes that has been closed for about 30 years or so. This sand was originally closed for the people that wants to go hiking and not worry about motor vehicles.  Well I can tell you that this area did not have or ever had hardly any motor vehicles ever . I wonder what the forest service would think if a bunch of us atvers was to start a petition to get them to reopen this area.  This area is about 4 miles long and has a lake in it that produces huge native trout as well as huge lake perch to.  Me and my family had some of the best times of our lives when we was able to drive to that lake.

[Dune Dude]

Here is the latest info on how to protect our trails:

For the latest on what GPS format they want.  You will have to enlarge your screen to read it.



Here are the maps of the Dune Areas:
Florence



Winchester Bay



Coos Bay



The only routes open in the dunes are the ones designated on the maps.  ie. Route 430, Hauser Beach Road,etc  in Coos Bay.  Goose Pasture, Chapman's, etc in Florence.  Nothing is designated in Winchester Bay.

This means that all the trails we ride including Banshee Hill are user created trails and are not supposed to be opened.  These are the areas we will see closed.  The USFS is asking for our help to map these trails with a GPS unit and provide specific comments on why these trails are important to us as riders.  This information is supposed to be used to keep these areas open.  Please do your part to get your comments in and notify your friends that ride.

This is going to get ugly and we will need every ones help in this fight.  Comments can be made at:

Siuslaw National Forest
 4077 SW Research Way, Corvallis, OR 97333
541-750-7000

Hebo Ranger District
31525 Hwy 22, Hebo, OR 97122
503-392-5100

Central Coast Rnager District-Oregon Dunes NRA
Reedsport Office
855 Hwy 101, Reedsport, OR 97467
541-271-6000     
Posted on: June 18, 2007, 11:57:26 PMHere is some important info from Jody.  He is looking for help in mapping the trail areas of the dunes.  Please contact him if you are able to help map areas.  We don't want everyone doing the same areas and we need to make sure that everything gets mapped and commented on.

Folks,

Those of you who want to participate in mapping the trails, there is a DVD out there that really helps. It comes from the National Off-Highway Vehicle Conservation Council. (see below) I feel we need to ask for more time to get our act together as this process is not going to be easy or cheap. I am calling Angie Morris and asking why the comment period is so short when mapping these trails is going to be very time intensive. I am also going to ask for detailed maps of where exactly they are considering keeping things open and what areas they are considering closing. That would help us reduce our mapping. The Forest Service focus is trails systems that do not fit neatly into the dunes. They are looking at trail “loops” and that is not going to work in the dunes. When a trail is used too much, it gets whooped out and then people look for alternative routes.

 

The book covers route designation from NOHVCC for 10 bucks http://www.nohvcc.org/newsletter/prbook.asp  BRC and other OHV groups helped in the development of this manual. They will also send the DVD free. You can also call 800-348-6487.

 

It requires some fairly expensive software. What I am looking for is, maybe 10 to 15 people who would like to get involved in creating these routes. If you are interested, please respond to this email. I have never used a GPS so I am starting from scratch. The DVD helps but it would be nice to get some people together and map out a few routes and then everybody is on the same page. My problem is time. I am booked all the way through August 18th to start seriously mapping.

 

We are having our family vacation starting July 13 and will be at Bull Run spot 131 and possible 128. (see attached and by the way site 132 is now designated as a group site). If you are in the area, please stop by. I will be attempting to map some trails just to figure out how. I did some mapping up in Florence on Fathers Day week end but did it all wrong. I still have the data but now need to get some software that appears to be $100.00 to get it in the format the FS requires.

 

As Lindy pointed out, this is very serious for all of us. It makes it more dangerous for all when they keep closing down riding areas. It makes me cry when I know this is all a political push by environmentalist that have serious money and simply do not understand or try to understand what they are doing. Very few of them have a clue what being in the woods mean much less actually been in them except city parks. Pretty scary when you think about it.

 

I know I am rambling but bottom line, please contact me if you are interested. I feel it would be worth our while to meet and develop a game plan to help each other get comfortable with the software. If you are interested and need to get a GPS the FS wants us to use the Garmin brand GPS. I guess Garmin Mapping does not have “Shape files” so I am going to get Fugawi Mapping. I have the Garmin GPS 60.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Sandy and Jody Phillips
Medford, Oregon

Jody Phillips [dunehead@charter.net]

Posted on: June 25, 2007, 05:09:06 PMHere is some more helpful information from our favorite lady up north:

Hello all, I spoke with Dean Devlin, the GIS guy from the Siusilaw Forest Service in Reedsport (very very nice guy) and they welcome our help.  It seems that a Magellan or Garmin should work as long as it can be connected to the computer for download.  It needs to be in its default setting WGS84.  We must run a test and send it to him prior to spending any time mapping so we can insure it will work with their system.  We also need to coordinate to make sure we are not over-lapping each other.  Again, this is just for the Dunes, Sand Lake, Hebo area, and all trail networks in the Siusilaw.  We still need folks in the other Forest Service areas but I am not sure how we can collect data for those areas or even if they will welcome our assistance. 
 
If you are able to map - for any area - please let me know so we can make sure your time and efforts will count.  I am going to focus on Siusilaw for now and need people willing to commit to a riding area.  For those who ride elsewhere - please please please contact those district offices and take the lead!!  We ALL need to participate if we are to be successful at keeping our favorite trails open.  Thank you!! Lindy

Linda Minten [minten@gotsky.com]